A D Kent
7 days ago
Reply to A D Kent
Re the UK’s Skripal fairytale, seeing it evolve in real-time wasn’t so much a ‘red pill’ for me as it was a London bus suppository such was my amazement at our Establishment media’s complicity at the time. Here are some fun facts that you have to accept to believe the UK government’s version of events:
That a 60 year old diabetic man and a 30 year old, fit and healthy woman received a dermal dose of a nerve agent from a door handle. The two remained symptom-free and in health good enough to go for a drive, a walk in a park, feed some ducks, have a few pints in a pub and a multi-course Italian meal before collapsing on a park bench four hours later. The collapses were so simultaneous that neither was able to raise the alarm for the other.
No one in the Establishment media has asked, let alone, received an answer to, any question regarding the physiological mechanism behind this, hitherto unknown to science, delayed-action nerve-agent effect. (Please post links if you have any – I’d love to be corrected on this).
The first medic at the scene at the park bench was a nurse, a non Salisbury resident who happened to be passing by doing some shopping after a birthday party with her daughter. This nurse just happened to be Colonel Alison McCourt – the most senior nurse in the entire British Army – and one who had received training in the treatment of the effects of nerve agents. No one in the Establishment media has questioned the likelihood of this amazing coincidence.
Despite there being no suggestion that the two alleged Russian agents ever entered the Skripal’s house or did anything other than spray the nerve agent on the door handle, the roof was so badly contaminated with the nerve agent that it later had to be removed, replaced and destroyed. Only the roof – not the storeys in between. No one in the Establishment media has questioned this.
The perfume bottle of novichok that killed Dawn Sturgess weeks after the poisoning of the Skripals, was found by her partner, Charlie Rowley, unopened in a charity bin four weeks after the original poisoning. A later BBC dramatisation of the events obfuscated this fact with cutting that made it appear that Rowley had found the perfume in the days after the Skripals were found. No one in the Establishment media has questioned the likelihood of this occurrence.
This perfume bottle was found on the worktop in Sturgess’s house eleven days after the police had begun a thorough search of the property looking for just such an object. No one in the Establishment media has questioned the likelihood of this occurrence.
Despite Salisbury council having recently installed an expensive, city-wide CCTV system – the recordings of which were seized by the Met Police – the UK authorities claim not to be able to account for the movements of the Skripals or the two alleged Russian agents on the day of the poisoning. FoI requests (from local citizens, not the Establishment media) have confirmed that all the cameras – including one pointed directly at the bench where the Skripals were found – were functioning on the afternoon of the events. No one in the Establishment media has questioned the likelihood of this occurrence.
I could go on – there’s the videos of un-gloved security personnel using the doorhandle in the 48 hours before the doorhandle story became public, the DSMA notices, there’s the not at all ill children the Skripals handed bread to to feed the ducks, there’s the hotel room in London that was allegedly contaminated with novichok that the British authorities didn’t bother to warn was a potential health risk for months after the event and the BBC’s Mark Urban’s ‘news’ that he’d been interviewing Skripal in the months prior to his poisoning which he kept to himself until months after the globe was focussed on this furore and much, much more.
But this is all accepted and acceptable by our Establishment media because to do otherwise would render them wild conspiracy theorists and/or apologists for Putin.
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Dennis Roberts
7 days ago
Reply to A D Kent
Has it occurred to you that your inability to understand things doesn’t means it’s a conspiracy. Just that you don’t understand.
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Michael Cazaly
6 days ago
Reply to Dennis Roberts
That’s certainly a possibility…but very slight.
The chances of the best person to be in attendance at such a “poisoning” actually being there are diminishingly small…in fact so small as to be unbelievable…but not impossible…just very very very unlikely…
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Dennis Roberts
6 days ago
Reply to Michael Cazaly
What makes you so sure that the most senior nurse in the British army is the absolute best person to deal with novichok poisoning? I mean, it’s not bad, but generally a doctor would be regarded as a better option than a nurse. Nurses provide treatment, they don’t diagnose.
And she’s recieved training in nerve agent casualty care! A senior medic in the army has received training in nerve agents – extraordinary!
What I really don’t get though is what ADK thinks actually happened? Did the British poison the Skripals? If so, why put the nurse there? And unless she had all the medical equipment required to treat nerve agent poisoning with her, which she didn’t, what benefit did she bring apart from dialling 999? Were they not actually poisoned? In which case it’s of no relevance that she’s there. Was it the actually the Russians that poisoned them but the British found out and put the nurse there to help? But then why not just get them off to hospital ASAP?
What exactly is the alternative story? What’s the motive for whatever the alternative is?
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Michael Cazaly
6 days ago
Reply to Dennis Roberts
So..let’s say “not the best”…but certainly much better than a “passer-by”…so still extremely fortuitous…
And the point is not “what actually happened” because we are never going to find out but that what we are told is extremely unlikely to have happened…in fact the chances are vanishingly small…
In short we are being fed a load of b s…presumably to blame “the Russians” but again who knows? No doubt the Skripals had many personal enemies not just the Russian state…
Incidentally where are they now…and in what state if health considering the toxicity of the poison?
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Dennis Roberts
6 days ago
Reply to Michael Cazaly
So again, you’ve come to the conclusion that it is unlikely because there are things you don’t personally understand, and some things you haven’t been told. So you just think it’s a lie.
Who knows where they are or what state of health they’re in. There’s a pretty obvious reason why they won’t be announcing where they are now.
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Michael Cazaly
6 days ago
Reply to Dennis Roberts
The story being officially peddled doesn’t stack up for umpteen reasons as set out.
If a story is being put out, but some things “aren’t told” the credibility of the story is called into question.
That has happened in this case. It was made a major story but somethings “not told”. Of course it is unlikely to be believed.
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A D Kent
6 days ago
Reply to Dennis Roberts
Why is it up to me to present an alternative story? What I know for certain is that, for the reasons I gave above (and more), the UK government’s story is utter cobblers. I know too that our media has done nothing to challenge it, nor has our Parliament (see the way Corbyn was shouted down by both Parliamentary cheeks when he had the temerity to suggest it might be best to wait for a proper investigation before we blamed the Russians).
FWIW I think what actually went on has something to do with Skripal’s UK intel handlers – the identity of whom was specifically restricted by the DSMA notices. One of them may have been a partner of Christopher Steele – of the Trump hotel-wee-wee Dossier fame. That both Sergei and Yulia have essentially been disappeared since the event is telling. Also the fact that the government is doing all it can to hide any details from the inquiry it is using to replace the usual coroners investigation into Dawn Sturgess’s sad death. You do know that’s going on at the moment don’t you? The lawyers for Dawn’s family have already complained about the delays and lack of information they’ve been given and it’s 7 years after the event already.
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Dennis Roberts
6 days ago
Reply to A D Kent
But as I said before, you think it is utter cobblers because there are aspects of the story that you don’t understand. Whilst some of them aren’t so easy to explain, others really aren’t as incredible as you make out.
For example the ‘delayed action nerve agent’ is really quite simple – the skin is generally a pretty good barrier and it takes time for chemicals to permeate through it.
From https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10828135/
“The skin’s barrier properties are such that fluids and precious chemicals are reasonably retained within the body, while foreign chemicals are restricted from entering the systemic circulation.”
Or, a bit more specific to nerve agents, from https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15605929/ (the epigastrium is skin over the stomach)
“VX on the epigastrium resulted in a marked delayed development of toxic signs, reduced toxicity, and reduction in the rate of cholinesterase depression”
I found both these from quick Google searches. It really isn’t at all remarkable that there was a time lag between exposure and symptoms.
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A D Kent
6 days ago
Reply to Dennis Roberts
Thanks for the google search, but it’s you who doesn’t understand. It wasn’t a delay between exposure and symptoms – it was a delay between exposure and near-simultaneous collapse after hours of showing no apparent ill effects at all. And that’s a collapse of 2 people of different size, general health and sexes (women have more subcutaneous fat just for starters). The chances of this are. like much else in this case, vanishingly small.
And then there’s the fact that those symptoms were not matched by those of policeman Nick Bailey who also touched the doorhandle – he got progressively more ill over the next 48 hours, but that’s just another of the glaring inconsistencies of this case that went completely unchallenged by our Establishment media.
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Dennis Roberts
6 days ago
Reply to A D Kent
It’s not simultaneous though is it – it developed over hours as you yourself have stated. The first symptoms will have been mild – feeling nauseous etc – and come on gradually, probably one before the other. So they sat on a bench for whichever started to feel ill first to have a rest, then the other began to feel unwell also, and gradually felt less and less like moving and then became less and less capable of doing so even if they wanted too.
There’s a lot of factors involved with how quickly they fall ill – dose, permeability of skin, body size, age, sex, general variation in susceptibility to nerve agents etc etc. Some of these will favour Skripal becoming ill first, others will cause Julia to become ill faster. It’s a balance that you can’t know and if you just thought about it rationally you’d realise that it’s nothing like a vanishingly small possibility.
As for Bailey all the same factors apply but he presumably got a much lower dose (most of the agent having got onto the Skripals hands first). The media doesn’t challenge it because there’s not much to challenge.
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Dennis Roberts
6 days ago
Reply to A D Kent
Let’s assume you’re right and it was nothing to do with the Russians. The British Govt decide to frame a couple of Russian spies that happened to have visited Salisbury, for whatever reasons. A couple of days later those same Russian spies decide to help out the British Govt by doing a comedy video appearance and say they were just visiting Salisbury to view it’s ‘world famous’ cathedral. Now that really is a vanishingly small possibility, which for some reason you’re totally ignoring.
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A D Kent
2 days ago
Reply to Dennis Roberts
I’ve no idea what htey were doing – could have been trading secrets, could have been peddling BS to Skripal’s ex-handlers (the details of whom were DSMA noticed), could have been importing/trafficking all sorts of things (steroid/body building drugs have been suggested by some). What I do know, for all the reasons above, is that the Bozo Johnson/Theresa May story is c**k and bull.
Re your point on their illness – they were perfectly well and symptom free enough for at least 3 hours, probably 4. There is no explanation for this directly ANYWHERE in the western media. Nowhere. Link to it if you can.
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Vesselina Zaitzeva
5 days ago
Reply to A D Kent
A good acquaintance of mine, a Russian woman living in London and following the events much more closely than I did, soon after the Scripal case drew my attention to the following:
Scripal was hardly of any interest to the Russian authorities, because he had spent many years in prison before going to the UK. Hence, he had no access to up-to-date, relevant information that he could forward/sell to anyone in the WestIf the Russian authorities really had wanted to kill him, they would have done it while he was in prison. Going to prison in Russia, even for minor crimes, is tantamount to a death sentence. One might be killed by inmates or the guards and the murderes would enjoy full impunity for thisand, if he had been really a valuable source of information, he would not have been allowed to leave Russia, under whatever pretext, anyway (overlaps with the first bullet point)I think that all this makes quite a good sense, too.
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